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Q&A

For therapists (and the rest of us): flexibility is a superpower

Marianne Lagutaine’s approach embraces nonbinary thinking

BY JANA EISENBERG

Marianne Lagutaine.

Marianne Lagutaine

Marianne Lagutaine.

An article published earlier this year by Marianne Lagutaine, a third-year PhD student in counseling psychology in the Department of Counseling, School and Educational Psychology, addressed the challenges of flexible thinking, and people’s ability to maintain an open mind. The piece was written for the Society of Counseling Psychologist’s website, and thus aimed at practitioners, but its message is broadly applicable. Lagutaine, whose research interests include considering therapeutic relationships under the impact of race and culture, as well as embodiment and integrated approaches, recently spoke with Learn about her perspective.

Question.

So what is “flexible thinking”?

Answer.

One of the things I thought about when writing the article was, for beginning therapists, how hard it is to sit with “I don't know…”: “I don't know what the diagnosis is,” “I don't know this person's background.” I also thought about Western culture, versus the East. The Eastern approach is frequently “yes, and” rather than “either/or.” For most people, it is much easier to see the black and white. I also was inspired by my teenage son, who is always so sure about everything.

Question.

Why is it important to be flexible?

Answer.

If you jump to certainty, you are short-changing yourself. You're not looking at all the options; you're going down the well-trodden path. With everything that’s going on in the world, especially U.S. politics, it's important to say, maybe we're both right. Or to ask questions: What about your point of view? Do we have common ground? We are surrounded with algorithms that confirm our own point of view, so we have to work at staying flexible and agile. When we are flexible, we are able to innovate, to change perspective. We can move away from “the way things have been done before.”

Question.

How does this mesh with your research?

Answer.

I think about what the body is saying—that integration between body and mind. Much of how I deal with things is nonbinary. It’s about how the mind and the body inform each other. For example, by modifying your breathing, you can calm down your mind. The article is a call to nonextreme thinking—to looking at spectrums rather than even a diagnosis. Instead of “is a person ill or are they healthy,” there’s a continuum. I want to encourage people to explore that continuum and to sit with “I don't quite know.” It can be uncomfortable.

Question.

You mentioned world events and politics…

Answer.

Yes. It’s important to acknowledge current events in the privacy of the therapy room. They affect people on individual levels. I try to provide space to listen and to acknowledge where people are coming from. When I have conversations, I no longer try to change anyone’s mind. I can't do that; if someone's not ready to change, they won't change. But rather than judge negatively, I choose to say, "Okay let's try again." Let’s listen to each other because we've got to start somewhere.

Question.

So what is “flexible thinking”?

Answer.

One of the things I thought about when writing the article was, for beginning therapists, how hard it is to sit with “I don't know…”: “I don't know what the diagnosis is,” “I don't know this person's background.” I also thought about Western culture, versus the East. The Eastern approach is frequently “yes, and” rather than “either/or.” For most people, it is much easier to see the black and white. I also was inspired by my teenage son, who is always so sure about everything.

Question.

Why is it important to be flexible?

Answer.

If you jump to certainty, you are short-changing yourself. You're not looking at all the options; you're going down the well-trodden path. With everything that’s going on in the world, especially U.S. politics, it's important to say, maybe we're both right. Or to ask questions: What about your point of view? Do we have common ground? We are surrounded with algorithms that confirm our own point of view, so we have to work at staying flexible and agile. When we are flexible, we are able to innovate, to change perspective. We can move away from “the way things have been done before.”

Question.

How does this mesh with your research?

Answer.

I think about what the body is saying—that integration between body and mind. Much of how I deal with things is nonbinary. It’s about how the mind and the body inform each other. For example, by modifying your breathing, you can calm down your mind. The article is a call to nonextreme thinking—to looking at spectrums rather than even a diagnosis. Instead of “is a person ill or are they healthy,” there’s a continuum. I want to encourage people to explore that continuum and to sit with “I don't quite know.” It can be uncomfortable.

Question.

You mentioned world events and politics…

Answer.

Yes. It’s important to acknowledge current events in the privacy of the therapy room. They affect people on individual levels. I try to provide space to listen and to acknowledge where people are coming from. When I have conversations, I no longer try to change anyone’s mind. I can't do that; if someone's not ready to change, they won't change. But rather than judge negatively, I choose to say, "Okay let's try again." Let’s listen to each other because we've got to start somewhere.

After a 16-year career in advertising, Marianne Lagutaine transitioned to therapy, earning MA degrees in art therapy and counseling. She brings a unique perspective to her research on therapeutic relationships, particularly the role of race, culture and embodiment in therapy.